I agree with the "time to form up = blob" theory. However, since LP payouts will increase I will be able to horde massive numbers of Comets, ENIs, VNIs, and now Navy Domis. Might get a few Navy Megas too. :)

Just fyi, the team shipping the faction warfare changes in Inferno will continue working on faction warfare after Inferno. Their task will be to follow up on the release and if they have time, add more stuff. First priority will be reacting to the changes that we ship, second priority adding new stuff to FW and the UI. That is their only task for the expansion following Inferno.

The second thing is this: I'm not entirely sure where the impression that we want to turn faction warfare into "0.0" has come from, but it's entirely inaccurate. We're not about to do that and the only similarity to 0.0 is that you'll be able to deny docking rights, which isn't turning Fw into 0.0, but common sense for any territorial combat, no matter where it is.

This is Sisi, it's a test server. It's where we put stuff to test it out and make changes, fix bugs etc. We write devblogs for releases, not for the test server. If you expect a devblog for our test server, you've entirely misunderstood how devblogs work.

Well this is good news. I hope they continue to iterate on faction war - to the extent they make it better and not more like the same thing we see in null sec.

Let me explain why the comparison with sov null sec being made:


1) In null sec it takes a long enough time to flip a system so a small gang can't do anything of substance before the more numerous side can form a blob and chase them out. You are doing this by making it take longer to flip a system.
2) In null sec you can deny docking rights so roaming fleets in enemy are more rare and take more planning and time to form up.
3) In null sec if you get the blob to capture a system you can upgrade your system so you can carebear more effectively

I mean this is basically sov null sec in a nut shell. In this expansion you are doing all these things. So in those regards you are making it more like sov null sec. In what ways is this expansion making faction war less like sov null sec?

I am not sure why it is common sense that an amarr milita member is not allowed to use any services or dock in a 24th imperial crusade station.

As far as dev blogs, I have given up on expecting them at all. The last faction war dev blog was how many years ago? If you read the end of that dev blog does it say that ccp will continue to work on faction war?

Even now it is very hard to find out how the current fw mechanics work. Can you point me to a ccp created source that really gives a detailed explanation of how many plexes need to switch and what effect the the size of the plex has on flipping it?

I am not trying to give you a hard time. I am just trying to explain that what you are doing is not being received well from many because we are already offered allot of these sorts of game play in eve and are not interested.

And although some people are saying give it a try and if it doesn't work ccp will change it there are 2 problems:

1) Some people will like these changes. The same people who like null sec have expressed they like these changes. So its not like no one will do faction war. People will. Its just that it will be people who already have what they are looking for in other parts of the game shifting back and forth. You won't be adding anything really unique to keep the people who aren't interested in the sov null sec stuff entertained.

2) Well your past history in treating faction war as something that doesn't deserve ongoing concern.

I certainly am! And thank you.

And there goes your neutrality. Welcome back Ankh, I quess....

You seem to think that being able to soak punishment and losses automatically means success. To quote immortal words of Private Frost, "What the hell are we supposed to use man? Harsh language? "

What do you consider a neutral approach to this situation?

I thought the deny to dock was also applied in hign sec.
It is not.
A bit strange in a RP pow to be hunted in ennemy space (with a warning from above) and be able to dock in a station.

Ninja edit : you might say who cares about high-sec when you are in the FW ? "Hiding" ships in a high sec entrance could become the only way to avoid an extending front line and attack from behind.

Just to give a little context here, what I had suggested and what Hans was agreeing to was that as a faction starts to "win", the losing side should get *increased* LP rewards for PVP. I feel that would go a fair ways towards encouraging a more balanced outcome, and making sure that there is a real incentive to join the "losing" side.

Everyone thinks that this will be major victory for minmatar and gallente.

But fact is that these changes are not changing anything really. Still systems are captured by faction who have patience to grind more than others. What happened last time when caldari grinders started to plex, only reason why they stopped was that CCP messed thing up too badly.

If some side manages to form up similar force than example PERVS was, nothing can stop them, not even jesus blob. I remember times when 4 PERVS cleared out 40 gallentes, and 6 PERVS slaughtered 30+ minmatars, all enemies got slaughtered so much that they quit plexing totally and said 'take all system, we do not care'.

So how will this patch change the fact that i might come back and form up similar gang again, there are no single thing that changes the fact that if you lose too hard in plexes, you will stop trying.

Do not worry, we can still use Villore as base.

start working on it , make concord happy

Hans if you want feedback about FW ill give you one. Sorry for my english.

1. Station lockdown
Why ppl are so woried about it? Its so easy to avoid that 'consequence'.
I like this as 'consequence' but its no big problem for our small group of 20 pilots becasue :
a) well quit FW for a while and still be shooting minmatar militia - naped with other Amarr FW corps/alliances - then we can dock and do whatever we like and laugh at all this mechanic. With alts in militia i can work on gething system back. In this scenario we get plenty of fights but no LPs for our mains. Our SS dosent matter, were < -5 after all.

Conclusion :
- lossing few LPs, still can dock and do whatever we want on alts in militia
- this whole mechanic affects only ppl who need to be in militia for
a) nice small/med fights
b) get easy LPs

2. We dont have to be in militia to fight for complexes and teake systems.
Example : 10 non FW pilots in plex + 1 FW alt which is teaking plex.
What would hurt us? If neutrals wont be allowed to enter plexes - only FW pilots. That what i call consequence. You want to fight for that system - you have to be in FW. Even then we can just camp entrance to plex...

3. Capturing plexes and rewards
Nice feature but why ONLY ONE pilots get the reward for capturing?
Example : Major Stronghold - it gives 30k LP - teakes 20m to capture, but on SISI only first pilot who started countdown trigger gets LPs - rest gets 0 (zero, null, nada).

4. Rewards for uprgading system are bad joke
Who needs more production slots in lovsec when there are thousands free in lov and hisec?
Clone discounts? In 7 years ive updated clone max 10 times - no value to me at all.
Brokers fee discount..... no use or so little its not intresting at all.

Only thing thats worth uprgading is possibility to use cynojamer. Rest is crap crap.... mega crap.

What would be nice? Few exapmles things WORTH fighting for:
* At some uprgade level sentries will attack oposite fraction - same way as ppl with GCC
* 90% reduction costs for repairs
* +10% shield/armor/speed of controling militia ships in this system
* better PI on planets in that system (more resources or other benefits, another reason to fight for customs and give many good fights)


5. LP store prices
Please fix tag demands for items. Some items now cost over 1b... thats crazy and it cryies for dev intervention for years.
1m LP for navy apoc.... prices are crazy.

ATM (after price rised from 1000 LP/isk) we have around 1400 LP / isk from ships like Armag Navy, Apoc Navy, Omen Navy etc.
Apoc before inferno - sells for 450m costs 250k LP + Hull = 1400 isk / LP
Apoc after inferno - sells for 500m costs 500k LP + Hull = 809 isk / LP
Apoc after inferno - sells for 500m costs 1000k LP + Hull = 406 isk / LP

Prices of BSes will rise over 500m of Navy ships. Prices ballancing in LP store is the key here - waiting for dev blog.
Please remember - navy ships are our 'perls' in FW - if you broke mechanism which allows ppl to get/use them - were screwed. CCP has to be very carefull here.

6. Datacores
Current price of datacores on sisi is probably broken same as other ships.
1000LP + 1M for 5 datacores.

Lets look at numbers - for example Datacore - Amarr Starship Enginering, lets say they sell for 300k each
1000 LP + 1m = 5 datacores = 500isk / LP
500 LP + 1m = 5 datacores = 2000isk / LP

I think price here is not bad.

7. LP for kills
4k lp for ishtar kill? Person who gots final blow gets LPs? If thats true - dosent sound good. Need more info here.
Overall this system looks like not finished on sisi. Not calculating ship real value?


Overall - more fights - big LPs nerf - could be 'good' or big disaster for many FW ppl.

The Ancillary boosters are f'king terrible. Wtf it burns your charges out in less than 30s, but then begins eating cap until you turn it off. THEN it takes 60s to reload 5 charges? wtf CCP?

Make it to where the module reloads while it is spending your capacitor. Also shorten the reload to 10seconds like the rest of the modules in eve for this. In its current state, only fools would use things packs of rubbish.

Because defensive plexes do not award lp. Hence if the missions were drastically nerfed the winning side would be shooting themselves in the foot on the lp side of things.